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Conversation #8: Metagaming

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rayuu
  • updated

Let me know what you think about this, we definitely had a lot of elaboration on this one so if you feel something is unnecessary and can be trimmed, or if something even needs to be elaborated on further-- let us know! And as always, keep it civil.

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Metagaming
Metagaming is the act of using out-of-game information in your roleplay.

This includes info gained from:

  • Discord/Twitch Streams
  • A video/text conversation conducted out of character
  • Information from the #text-rp and #character-bios channels on the Discord
  • Other external communications such as Discord, Teamspeak, etc
  • Knowledge from other characters that you play as

On our server, it is expected that you learn about everything in character and never use anything outside of the game to benefit you, even if you feel like your story or roleplay would be better knowing the information you've heard out of character.

On the topic of using recordings for in character consequences:
Anything streamed or recorded cannot be used to punish the character in RP, for example if a cop wants to do something shady on stream only the people involved in the RP situation can report it from their own perspective.

If you are watching the stream or recording, the footage cannot be used against them in a roleplay scenario. Anyone can claim they are using bodycam footage, which in return can be used as evidence against someone in RP. However, streams and recordings can be used by staff to enforce server rules.

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2
Zopfco

Anything streamed or recorded cannot be used to punish the character in RP


What of the reasoning around security cameras in the rules about valuing freedom? Just about everywhere has security cameras but if the actual recordings can't be used why are we concerned with them? If I have cameras inside my business why can't I turn the recording of a robbery over to police?

Anyone can claim they are using bodycam footage, which in return can be used as evidence against someone in RP.


This also seems contradictory, but aside from that people shouldn't be assumed to be secretly filming everything when those recordings & the devices themselves only exist if it benefits them.  At the least a prop should be required - the bodycam clothing item, holding a camera or obviously filming with a phone. Characters should not be able to claim they are secretly wired up whenever it suits them.

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1
choppa
Anyone can claim they are using bodycam footage, which in return can be used as evidence against someone in RP.
This also seems contradictory, but aside from that people shouldn't be assumed to be secretly filming everything when those recordings & the devices themselves only exist if it benefits them. At the least a prop should be required - the bodycam clothing item, holding a camera or obviously filming with a phone. Characters should not be able to claim they are secretly wired up whenever it suits them.

100% this!!


Whenever I had issues (with cops for example) I always pulled out my phone in order to actually "be recording" something and use it in RP. It's a bit shitty from my POV that people can claim bodycamera footage without actually have bodycameras on them, when you can literally put one on you from the clothing store if you want to claim that...


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1
Diezel

Metagaming

Oftentimes, a player will come to know something that their character does not. Players have access to tools like Discord, forum posts, etc. where they might learn something that their character has no way to know. If you use this information in any way (including adjusting your behavior or, while In-Character, relaying this information to another character), then you would be metagaming.

  • Sharing information that other characters would not feasibly be able to see or otherwise interpret, sharing out-of-character information through an in-character medium, or taking in-character action based on information gained from an out-of-character source are all classified as metagaming.

    • Using any form of Out-Of-Character communication (such as Discord, Teamspeak, Skype etc...) while In Character to communicate with other players, whether or not they are involved in the scene with you. You cannot have "someone in your ear" using Out Of Character means.

    As for the CCTV and player recordings argument.

    1. If you RP having a body camera for RP purposes, then it should actually be on the players body. We aren't super spys with button cameras. But you can also use an emote to pull out your phone and "record."

    2. Businesses should be able to use recordings from players as CCTV as long as it was RECORDED ON THE BUSINESS PROPERTY. As long as it was filmed on the grounds of the business, it should be able to be used for RP and not considered Metagaming.

    3. If someone is streaming, the people watching the stream aren't elite hackers finding the business's camera feed. They are still watching as a player not their character.

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    tunkwa
    Quote from Diezel

    Metagaming

    Oftentimes, a player will come to know something that their character does not. Players have access to tools like Discord, forum posts, etc. where they might learn something that their character has no way to know. If you use this information in any way (including adjusting your behavior or, while In-Character, relaying this information to another character), then you would be metagaming.

    • Sharing information that other characters would not feasibly be able to see or otherwise interpret, sharing out-of-character information through an in-character medium, or taking in-character action based on information gained from an out-of-character source are all classified as metagaming.

      • Using any form of Out-Of-Character communication (such as Discord, Teamspeak, Skype etc...) while In Character to communicate with other players, whether or not they are involved in the scene with you. You cannot have "someone in your ear" using Out Of Character means.

      As for the CCTV and player recordings argument.

      1. If you RP having a body camera for RP purposes, then it should actually be on the players body. We aren't super spys with button cameras. But you can also use an emote to pull out your phone and "record."

      2. Businesses should be able to use recordings from players as CCTV as long as it was RECORDED ON THE BUSINESS PROPERTY. As long as it was filmed on the grounds of the business, it should be able to be used for RP and not considered Metagaming.

      3. If someone is streaming, the people watching the stream aren't elite hackers finding the business's camera feed. They are still watching as a player not their character.

      See, I RP as Bill having camera glasses. Those are actually quite popular and people use them when fishing, biking or even driving so they don't have to use a head mounted GoPro. That way he will always have footage and the reason he is always wearing his sunglasses. 

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      Diezel
      Quote from tunkwa

      See, I RP as Bill having camera glasses. Those are actually quite popular and people use them when fishing, biking or even driving so they don't have to use a head mounted GoPro. That way he will always have footage and the reason he is always wearing his sunglasses. 

      I’m fine with that. I think honestly we should designate which numbers that could be “camera glasses.” As someone who wears goggles a lot I would never call them camera glasses. Same with the safety glasses, or the rave, you get the point. But if we designated what numbers of glasses that could be considered a recording device I think it would add to RP and maybe even be able to tell when another player has them on as well.

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      1
      choppa
      Quote from tunkwa

      See, I RP as Bill having camera glasses. Those are actually quite popular and people use them when fishing, biking or even driving so they don't have to use a head mounted GoPro. That way he will always have footage and the reason he is always wearing his sunglasses. 

      Then , if I was doing that, I’d be in 1st person view whenever i’m recording something that I’d like to claim I used camera glasses to record. Would make more RP sense.

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      50BMG
      Quote from choppa

      Then , if I was doing that, I’d be in 1st person view whenever i’m recording something that I’d like to claim I used camera glasses to record. Would make more RP sense.

      100% agree with this. otherwise people can start claiming they have a button replaced in their sweater with a camera or a hat with a camera imbedded

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      Diezel
      Quote from 50BMG

      100% agree with this. otherwise people can start claiming they have a button replaced in their sweater with a camera or a hat with a camera imbedded

      Which basically gets back to what I was saying. Just for purpose of conversation glasses 5,8, and 9 are camera glasses. Then it would eliminate the need to be in first person view for only recording. It isn’t something that is turned on and off, it can be running non stop. It would just add to the means of logical RP recording. Cause honestly people seeing you stand in first person would possibly make people act different and then people with different glasses could use this motion to advantage. All we need is the correct rules in place to not need extra steps.

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      TheAlphaStrain

      I don't overly agree with forcing someone to wear something that might not go with their clothing or character. I don't overly understand why it's such a big deal for someone to claim they're using a bodycam. Right now, the ONLY reason that bodycam footage is even remotely important is via reporting players for doing wrong. When the courts open, sure, you'll probably need it for that, for your court case.

      Being a streamer and having the ability to record all the time when I'm not streaming, I don't want to be forced to wear a particular clothing item to signify to other people that I'm recording. Why should I? It's not my job to keep other players from breaking the laws/rules. Which is exactly how it'll go if we're forced to identify when we're recording. We're not the police. I'm also not gonna sit there with a camera in my hand all day or my phone out. There are quite a few players who can, and do, spend 8+ hours a day in the city. Me being one of those players, so recording for 8+ hours a day is something I do. 99% of the time I don't even need any of my footage so it just gets deleted. Or I make smaller clips of them and upload them to YT for funny moments.

      Could you imagine being a new player in the city and they just so happen to mention that they record all their gameplay sessions in case someone breaks the laws? (Meaning rules of the server) The person(s) they're with at the time might be like "Oh, you're using bodycam? But, you're not wearing your GoPro, (Or your recording glasses. Or have your phone in your hand etc) to let everyone else in the city know you're using one. That's against the law." you think they would stay? I wouldn't. 

      Also, let's run down a scenario here... say this becomes an actual thing, which I very highly hope it won't be. But, let's say new law passes you have to identify with recording via prop clothing. Say one day you decide to take it off. Yet, you're still recording. Someone breaks a rule against you. Let's say VDM. Just comes up to you, doesn't say anything, no RP initiation, makes multiple attempts to run you over and eventually downs you. 

      1) You report them for VDM, they get in trouble. They get points. << That's how it should be.

      But, this is how it'll actually go.

      2) You report them for VDM, they get in trouble. They counter report for you not using said identifying clothing item signifying you're using bodycam. You get in trouble, 'cause that's a rule now. They get points. You get points.

      Fair? I don't think so.

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      0
      Diezel
      Quote from TheAlphaStrain

      I don't overly agree with forcing someone to wear something that might not go with their clothing or character. I don't overly understand why it's such a big deal for someone to claim they're using a bodycam. Right now, the ONLY reason that bodycam footage is even remotely important is via reporting players for doing wrong. When the courts open, sure, you'll probably need it for that, for your court case.

      Being a streamer and having the ability to record all the time when I'm not streaming, I don't want to be forced to wear a particular clothing item to signify to other people that I'm recording. Why should I? It's not my job to keep other players from breaking the laws/rules. Which is exactly how it'll go if we're forced to identify when we're recording. We're not the police. I'm also not gonna sit there with a camera in my hand all day or my phone out. There are quite a few players who can, and do, spend 8+ hours a day in the city. Me being one of those players, so recording for 8+ hours a day is something I do. 99% of the time I don't even need any of my footage so it just gets deleted. Or I make smaller clips of them and upload them to YT for funny moments.

      Could you imagine being a new player in the city and they just so happen to mention that they record all their gameplay sessions in case someone breaks the laws? (Meaning rules of the server) The person(s) they're with at the time might be like "Oh, you're using bodycam? But, you're not wearing your GoPro, (Or your recording glasses. Or have your phone in your hand etc) to let everyone else in the city know you're using one. That's against the law." you think they would stay? I wouldn't. 

      Also, let's run down a scenario here... say this becomes an actual thing, which I very highly hope it won't be. But, let's say new law passes you have to identify with recording via prop clothing. Say one day you decide to take it off. Yet, you're still recording. Someone breaks a rule against you. Let's say VDM. Just comes up to you, doesn't say anything, no RP initiation, makes multiple attempts to run you over and eventually downs you. 

      1) You report them for VDM, they get in trouble. They get points. << That's how it should be.

      But, this is how it'll actually go.

      2) You report them for VDM, they get in trouble. They counter report for you not using said identifying clothing item signifying you're using bodycam. You get in trouble, 'cause that's a rule now. They get points. You get points.

      Fair? I don't think so.

      I think you are confusing recording to report. And recording to share knowledge in an RP environment. If I see you do something and want to put a hit on you and have footage of it. It should be done constructively through RP means

      
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