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Conversation #13: Anti-Deathmatch

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rayuu
  • updated

This rule was forgotten in our conversations but I also think there is still a few more that need to be added. Let me know what you think about this rule as it was a pretty unique approach to "new life rule" since we believed no one was actually following that rule. Regardless, let us know what you think. Keep it CIVIL!!!

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Anti-Deathmatch
Players are held to a standard of not turning the server into a call of duty lobby. If a player returns or re-engages with the same group that injured them within 60 minutes, they are reportable and we will administer punishment.

  • If you down someone, you also cannot forcibly engage with them for 60 minutes. This applies to ALL players. Police are able to continue the chain of custody for suspects in lieu of this rule.
Replies 16
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0
Diezel
Quote from Zopfco

To be more clear, I'm trying to understand how the victim knows a plot kill has taken place without OOC/meta info. Ideally the attacker would give them some indication like "you've been asking too many question about _____ " but circumstances may not always allow for that. 

Again, I like the idea of this resolving certain arcs for individual characters. I'm trying to understand how this would be implemented and how we can avoid potential problems that come to mind.  This didn't end up making

people trigger happy in order to RP block anyone that's a threat to them?

Sure. One of the stipulations are you are not allowed to seek revenge for yourself. The victim knows a PK occurred because a CK literally is a character perma death. They got shot and sent to ICU with serious injuries. They are now fully removed from the plot. They are also replaced with a “red shirt.” Someone did die, but it wasn’t “you.” 
the Nark was killed. The traitor, the cop, the stupid ass with a loud mouth. 
however yea you got injured and don’t know how. You aren’t to be informed of what happened because it doesn’t matter. Unlike typical new life rules, you can’t go after the person who knocked you out of a scene. But your friends can.

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0
Zopfco

To be more clear, I'm trying to understand how the victim knows a plot kill has taken place without OOC/meta info. Ideally the attacker would give them some indication like "you've been asking too many question about _____ " but circumstances may not always allow for that. 

Again, I like the idea of this resolving certain arcs for individual characters. I'm trying to understand how this would be implemented and how we can avoid potential problems that come to mind.  This didn't end up making

people trigger happy in order to RP block anyone that's a threat to them?

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0
Diezel
Quote from Zopfco

I'm asking how the cop knows who shot him in order to determine they need to no longer be involved.

Not sure where you're getting that survival means they were shot in the legs? We don't have forced permadeath (thankfully) & people survive multiple GSW's anyway. I don't understand this part.


NVL is for sure a problem. Combined with not being able to search people robbery RP too often ends with "may as well shoot me then". Asking staff to verify every robbery victim ia being truthful about what theyre holding would be a mess so again we have power gaming & people just lie.

Well asking vague questions makes vague answers. You aren’t really giving me anything to work with. 
a cop shot while investigating something removes them from the investigation. Who shot them while they were investing must have something to do with they were a criminal at the investigation scene. They are then completely removed from the investigation.


Sometimes going to the ICU isn’t considered death either. But if I shoot you in the face in a scene, the plot kill allows a death. Now someone was shot in the face. You get removed from the scene and wasnt ever part of it. Someone actually died. 

Everyone wants to be shot in the shoulder, but I’m trying to bring rules that made serious RP servers actually take death and hospitalization into a much more critical path.


as said before, right now you can shoot me in the middle of the ocean. I can take a local doctor and remember your shooting and me drowning. That scuffs the fuck out of not just the death but the actions taken. Lack of rule creates even more vagueness to RP. And loosens the tone to being more Light or Medium. Not saying New Chance should be strict serious, but it would be nice for it to be more serious. Making death meaningful even for just a plot kill.

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0
Zopfco
Quote from Diezel

That cop if killed by the person he is investigating would then be off that investigation. There should be more than one cop involved on an investigation.

The public figure shot (should we ever even have one) in your example here you state they survived. So I’m guessing the RP only means they were shot in the legs? By RP standard then no they won’t forget and they are going to ICU to be treated for leg wounds. 

By having none of this though, not even a chance at changing things, you allow even more confusing situations to keep happening. Also people always talk about being killed. I’m guessing most of the population is zombies? Or they know they can respawn? I think lack of this rule clearly creates garbage scenarios then even having a small portion of one.

I'm asking how the cop knows who shot him in order to determine they need to no longer be involved.

Not sure where you're getting that survival means they were shot in the legs? We don't have forced permadeath (thankfully) & people survive multiple GSW's anyway. I don't understand this part.


NVL is for sure a problem. Combined with not being able to search people robbery RP too often ends with "may as well shoot me then". Asking staff to verify every robbery victim ia being truthful about what theyre holding would be a mess so again we have power gaming & people just lie.

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0
Diezel
Quote from Zopfco

Let's say a public figure is shot but survives. It happens in a public place, there are witnesses. They are to RP as though it never happened, or that everyone knows the circumstances but them?

What if they are a police detective involved in multiple investigations. They don't know which (if any) are tied to the shooter. Do all the investigations end?

I totally agree that a little more trust should be given but our rules need to be clear so there aren't different interpretations from one player to the next. I think that's been an issue & why we're trying to clear them up with this revision.


I do like the idea of Plot Kills over an NLR but I'm not sure how to apply it consistently.

That cop if killed by the person he is investigating would then be off that investigation. There should be more than one cop involved on an investigation.

The public figure shot (should we ever even have one) in your example here you state they survived. So I’m guessing the RP only means they were shot in the legs? By RP standard then no they won’t forget and they are going to ICU to be treated for leg wounds. 

By having none of this though, not even a chance at changing things, you allow even more confusing situations to keep happening. Also people always talk about being killed. I’m guessing most of the population is zombies? Or they know they can respawn? I think lack of this rule clearly creates garbage scenarios then even having a small portion of one.

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1
Zopfco

Let's say a public figure is shot but survives. It happens in a public place, there are witnesses. They are to RP as though it never happened, or that everyone knows the circumstances but them?

What if they are a police detective involved in multiple investigations. They don't know which (if any) are tied to the shooter. Do all the investigations end?

I totally agree that a little more trust should be given but our rules need to be clear so there aren't different interpretations from one player to the next. I think that's been an issue & why we're trying to clear them up with this revision.


I do like the idea of Plot Kills over an NLR but I'm not sure how to apply it consistently.

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0
Diezel
Quote from Zopfco

I like the NLR in theory but in practice it's been very hard to enforce. Someone "left a note", or saw security video, or they find out from witnesses. Their friend hears about it or they get details from the responding EMT.

In most cases it's power gaming but sometimes it's legit and the victim is able to discover what happened. How do we prove which one it is?

I am also for the 90m cooldown. Encourage more story to take place instead of just watching the clock. However it needs to be made clear that a cooldown is not a magic shield to be exploited so you can go places or do things that would otherwise get you shot. That would again be classed as power gaming.

This is the rule that we used to use. where I come from we didn’t call it a New Life Rule. We called it a plot kill. Character kills were when you decided the character was literally dead to fill that gap quickly. But this is how we established it.

    There are two types of character death in the game. PK’s (or Plot Kills) and CK’s (or Character Kills).

    1. Plot Kills are, admittedly, confusing and sometimes frustrating but they are almost always preferable to a system where all deaths are permanent. Several important factors of PK’s to remember are:
      1. Are temporary. You can resume roleplaying your character as soon as you are revived by the script.
      2. Remove you from a particular plot. If, for example, you were killed while investigating a crime, you are removed from the investigation.
      3. You can not share information you’d learned prior to being PK’d with regard to that plot.
      4. You should avoid returning to the scene of your character’s death for at least two hours unless it was his home or place of employment AND can not be avoided.
      5. Your character can not seek revenge for his own death or help those who are.
      6. To the others who might be affected by your character’s PK, “someone” they knew was killed. It wasn’t “you”. “You” were never involved in the plot that resulted in your character’s PK.

    How do you enforce it? Simple, you can’t return to that scene. You are crossed out of it. If you come back later, the Plot Kill was a red shirt. Any info you gained is lost, and if shared no different then Meta Gaming on the discord. We need to trust players can play properly. If they can’t learn to not meta game, then they aren’t bringing good RP to begin with.

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    1
    Zopfco

    I like the NLR in theory but in practice it's been very hard to enforce. Someone "left a note", or saw security video, or they find out from witnesses. Their friend hears about it or they get details from the responding EMT.

    In most cases it's power gaming but sometimes it's legit and the victim is able to discover what happened. How do we prove which one it is?

    I am also for the 90m cooldown. Encourage more story to take place instead of just watching the clock. However it needs to be made clear that a cooldown is not a magic shield to be exploited so you can go places or do things that would otherwise get you shot. That would again be classed as power gaming.

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    0
    Diezel
    Quote from Moonchie

    I feel like this is a push to get NLR back in NC over disagreeing with what i'm saying. Because lets use that 5 month logic considering the time ratio. 5 months to recover, 5 months to meet/catch up with your group, 5 months to plan a course of action, 10 months to assemble the group for said plan, 5-10 to carry out said plan. That should well cover the 30 minutes (months, geeze thats a lot of time) for the situation to die down. The exception to the 30 minutes is if the situation is still on going like you referred to. But not everybody will drag a situation like that, some will re group and make a plan instead. In my opinion, NLR will diminish the RP because how can a story line/situation continue if you don't remember how you died or who did it to you? I feel like it will enable people to get robbed and shot with no repercussions what so ever. In addition, if people are getting technical with each other NLR can create a ton of reports of people trying to work the grey area by mixing situations/scenarios which will just be a huge waste of time for staff to sit and look into what's really going on. "That person came back cause we robbed them and broke the NLR!" when in reality he's there because of a situation that happened the day prior with a different person in their crew. Unless you have a NLR variant I haven't seen or experienced. And if so, I would be interested in reading what it says. Cause your version of NLR may be different/better from the one I experienced. And that may be why im against it at the current time.

    New Life Rules aid more RP then stops. If I shoot you in the middle of the ocean and you aren’t able to be picked up, take a local doctor, and then revenge attack me, how would that make sense. I just dropped you where literally no one will find or come get you. These scenarios are why it is important. On other servers when someone died in a group, it became an unnamed patron who died. A Star Trek red shirt. Say me and Bill are attacking someone. And I get downed an ICU’d. When I come out I don’t know anything, other than I have been in intensive care. However someone still was killed, an unnamed member of the group. One of our upper pirates. This is a rule that was used on multiple serious RP servers I have played on. To no institute some form of memory loss the event are silly at times. Also people talking about how they got killed. If you were killed, you wouldn’t be standing here talking to me. It strengthens RP and doesn’t weaken it. I feel people use the hour cooldown as a reengagement tool. I’m my opinion it would be fine being even 90 minutes. Shortening it doesn’t help anything but open a door for more issues to occur. People need to take the time to sit down and let the scene process and progress.

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    1
    Brilentgun
    Quote from Zopfco

    As far as resolution goes..  There's a rule setting a $25k pay-off (edit) for ransoms with official gangs. Maybe that could be expanded to everyone, though I think it should be broadened to include other types of restitution.  Sometimes it's not about the money; maybe you want the other group to stop robbing houses in your neighborhood, or you want them to return a specific item. 

    The important thing is that the conflict has a reasonable way of ending that doesn't involve posting bodies on Insta. (FFS!) Something that both parties can agree upon.  Even if it's one big rumble and the last one standing wins.. There needs to be a way to finish it, at least temporarily, without staff needing to get involved.

    I like the way your thinking here but we use that as a  cap so people don't try 500k  hostage exchanges and stuff like that.  id love to see people do what you're saying more without having to make a rule stating such.

    
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