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Conversation #13: Anti-Deathmatch

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rayuu
  • updated

This rule was forgotten in our conversations but I also think there is still a few more that need to be added. Let me know what you think about this rule as it was a pretty unique approach to "new life rule" since we believed no one was actually following that rule. Regardless, let us know what you think. Keep it CIVIL!!!

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Anti-Deathmatch
Players are held to a standard of not turning the server into a call of duty lobby. If a player returns or re-engages with the same group that injured them within 60 minutes, they are reportable and we will administer punishment.

  • If you down someone, you also cannot forcibly engage with them for 60 minutes. This applies to ALL players. Police are able to continue the chain of custody for suspects in lieu of this rule.
Replies 16
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0
Moonchie

I feel like 45 minutes would be prime for the general population. I've had 2 separate situations where we waited the 60 minutes, first situation a homie got hit for "engaging at 58 minutes" or something of the sort, second situation the people we were going after flew out before the time expired. In addition, 30 minutes for gangs considering their RP is surrounded by drugs and violence would be awesome as well.

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Zopfco

I could see this being relaxed for PD in some situations.  A city like LS would not run out of cops.  For example if one is still up and involved in a chase the other 2 that may have been downed at the original scene should be able to rejoin that chase.  If the suspect escapes then the cooldown should still apply for something like serving a warrant.  

Shooting at cops should be a desperate means of escape, not completely eliminating the threat of law enforcement for an hour because only one PD player happens to be online.

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0
Diezel
Quote from Moonchie

I feel like 45 minutes would be prime for the general population. I've had 2 separate situations where we waited the 60 minutes, first situation a homie got hit for "engaging at 58 minutes" or something of the sort, second situation the people we were going after flew out before the time expired. In addition, 30 minutes for gangs considering their RP is surrounded by drugs and violence would be awesome as well.

I don’t agree. I feel that if people are waiting for a timer to be up to get back in battle or a scene isn’t doing good RP. They just got out of the hospital. By hospital standard you’ve been in for 5 months. Everyone else is in action. To just get up and return to an ongoing situation is like you were never hurt at all. I actually don’t think people should be able to return to an on going scene. Go home and sit down and let it play out. Illegal RP or not. When my guys get shot down and sent to ICU in an ongoing scene they don’t return to the scene til it is absolutely finished. It plays better into RP. They can be back in the next chapter. I would like to see a new life rule return to New Chance to improve quality of RP

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0
Moonchie
Quote from Diezel

I don’t agree. I feel that if people are waiting for a timer to be up to get back in battle or a scene isn’t doing good RP. They just got out of the hospital. By hospital standard you’ve been in for 5 months. Everyone else is in action. To just get up and return to an ongoing situation is like you were never hurt at all. I actually don’t think people should be able to return to an on going scene. Go home and sit down and let it play out. Illegal RP or not. When my guys get shot down and sent to ICU in an ongoing scene they don’t return to the scene til it is absolutely finished. It plays better into RP. They can be back in the next chapter. I would like to see a new life rule return to New Chance to improve quality of RP

I feel like this is a push to get NLR back in NC over disagreeing with what i'm saying. Because lets use that 5 month logic considering the time ratio. 5 months to recover, 5 months to meet/catch up with your group, 5 months to plan a course of action, 10 months to assemble the group for said plan, 5-10 to carry out said plan. That should well cover the 30 minutes (months, geeze thats a lot of time) for the situation to die down. The exception to the 30 minutes is if the situation is still on going like you referred to. But not everybody will drag a situation like that, some will re group and make a plan instead. In my opinion, NLR will diminish the RP because how can a story line/situation continue if you don't remember how you died or who did it to you? I feel like it will enable people to get robbed and shot with no repercussions what so ever. In addition, if people are getting technical with each other NLR can create a ton of reports of people trying to work the grey area by mixing situations/scenarios which will just be a huge waste of time for staff to sit and look into what's really going on. "That person came back cause we robbed them and broke the NLR!" when in reality he's there because of a situation that happened the day prior with a different person in their crew. Unless you have a NLR variant I haven't seen or experienced. And if so, I would be interested in reading what it says. Cause your version of NLR may be different/better from the one I experienced. And that may be why im against it at the current time.

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1
Zopfco

As far as resolution goes..  There's a rule setting a $25k pay-off (edit) for ransoms with official gangs. Maybe that could be expanded to everyone, though I think it should be broadened to include other types of restitution.  Sometimes it's not about the money; maybe you want the other group to stop robbing houses in your neighborhood, or you want them to return a specific item. 

The important thing is that the conflict has a reasonable way of ending that doesn't involve posting bodies on Insta. (FFS!) Something that both parties can agree upon.  Even if it's one big rumble and the last one standing wins.. There needs to be a way to finish it, at least temporarily, without staff needing to get involved.

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0
Moonchie
Quote from Zopfco

As far as resolution goes..  There's a rule setting a $25k pay-off (edit) for ransoms with official gangs. Maybe that could be expanded to everyone, though I think it should be broadened to include other types of restitution.  Sometimes it's not about the money; maybe you want the other group to stop robbing houses in your neighborhood, or you want them to return a specific item. 

The important thing is that the conflict has a reasonable way of ending that doesn't involve posting bodies on Insta. (FFS!) Something that both parties can agree upon.  Even if it's one big rumble and the last one standing wins.. There needs to be a way to finish it, at least temporarily, without staff needing to get involved.

Agreements to stop long running beefs thru restitution sounds great tbh as long as there is a ceiling to how much you can demand from said crew you are beefing with. Like you said, we just need a way to finish the situation temporarily to let emotions die down so staff doesn't need to get involved.

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1
Brilentgun
Quote from Zopfco

As far as resolution goes..  There's a rule setting a $25k pay-off (edit) for ransoms with official gangs. Maybe that could be expanded to everyone, though I think it should be broadened to include other types of restitution.  Sometimes it's not about the money; maybe you want the other group to stop robbing houses in your neighborhood, or you want them to return a specific item. 

The important thing is that the conflict has a reasonable way of ending that doesn't involve posting bodies on Insta. (FFS!) Something that both parties can agree upon.  Even if it's one big rumble and the last one standing wins.. There needs to be a way to finish it, at least temporarily, without staff needing to get involved.

I like the way your thinking here but we use that as a  cap so people don't try 500k  hostage exchanges and stuff like that.  id love to see people do what you're saying more without having to make a rule stating such.

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0
Diezel
Quote from Moonchie

I feel like this is a push to get NLR back in NC over disagreeing with what i'm saying. Because lets use that 5 month logic considering the time ratio. 5 months to recover, 5 months to meet/catch up with your group, 5 months to plan a course of action, 10 months to assemble the group for said plan, 5-10 to carry out said plan. That should well cover the 30 minutes (months, geeze thats a lot of time) for the situation to die down. The exception to the 30 minutes is if the situation is still on going like you referred to. But not everybody will drag a situation like that, some will re group and make a plan instead. In my opinion, NLR will diminish the RP because how can a story line/situation continue if you don't remember how you died or who did it to you? I feel like it will enable people to get robbed and shot with no repercussions what so ever. In addition, if people are getting technical with each other NLR can create a ton of reports of people trying to work the grey area by mixing situations/scenarios which will just be a huge waste of time for staff to sit and look into what's really going on. "That person came back cause we robbed them and broke the NLR!" when in reality he's there because of a situation that happened the day prior with a different person in their crew. Unless you have a NLR variant I haven't seen or experienced. And if so, I would be interested in reading what it says. Cause your version of NLR may be different/better from the one I experienced. And that may be why im against it at the current time.

New Life Rules aid more RP then stops. If I shoot you in the middle of the ocean and you aren’t able to be picked up, take a local doctor, and then revenge attack me, how would that make sense. I just dropped you where literally no one will find or come get you. These scenarios are why it is important. On other servers when someone died in a group, it became an unnamed patron who died. A Star Trek red shirt. Say me and Bill are attacking someone. And I get downed an ICU’d. When I come out I don’t know anything, other than I have been in intensive care. However someone still was killed, an unnamed member of the group. One of our upper pirates. This is a rule that was used on multiple serious RP servers I have played on. To no institute some form of memory loss the event are silly at times. Also people talking about how they got killed. If you were killed, you wouldn’t be standing here talking to me. It strengthens RP and doesn’t weaken it. I feel people use the hour cooldown as a reengagement tool. I’m my opinion it would be fine being even 90 minutes. Shortening it doesn’t help anything but open a door for more issues to occur. People need to take the time to sit down and let the scene process and progress.

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1
Zopfco

I like the NLR in theory but in practice it's been very hard to enforce. Someone "left a note", or saw security video, or they find out from witnesses. Their friend hears about it or they get details from the responding EMT.

In most cases it's power gaming but sometimes it's legit and the victim is able to discover what happened. How do we prove which one it is?

I am also for the 90m cooldown. Encourage more story to take place instead of just watching the clock. However it needs to be made clear that a cooldown is not a magic shield to be exploited so you can go places or do things that would otherwise get you shot. That would again be classed as power gaming.

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0
Diezel
Quote from Zopfco

I like the NLR in theory but in practice it's been very hard to enforce. Someone "left a note", or saw security video, or they find out from witnesses. Their friend hears about it or they get details from the responding EMT.

In most cases it's power gaming but sometimes it's legit and the victim is able to discover what happened. How do we prove which one it is?

I am also for the 90m cooldown. Encourage more story to take place instead of just watching the clock. However it needs to be made clear that a cooldown is not a magic shield to be exploited so you can go places or do things that would otherwise get you shot. That would again be classed as power gaming.

This is the rule that we used to use. where I come from we didn’t call it a New Life Rule. We called it a plot kill. Character kills were when you decided the character was literally dead to fill that gap quickly. But this is how we established it.

    There are two types of character death in the game. PK’s (or Plot Kills) and CK’s (or Character Kills).

    1. Plot Kills are, admittedly, confusing and sometimes frustrating but they are almost always preferable to a system where all deaths are permanent. Several important factors of PK’s to remember are:
      1. Are temporary. You can resume roleplaying your character as soon as you are revived by the script.
      2. Remove you from a particular plot. If, for example, you were killed while investigating a crime, you are removed from the investigation.
      3. You can not share information you’d learned prior to being PK’d with regard to that plot.
      4. You should avoid returning to the scene of your character’s death for at least two hours unless it was his home or place of employment AND can not be avoided.
      5. Your character can not seek revenge for his own death or help those who are.
      6. To the others who might be affected by your character’s PK, “someone” they knew was killed. It wasn’t “you”. “You” were never involved in the plot that resulted in your character’s PK.

    How do you enforce it? Simple, you can’t return to that scene. You are crossed out of it. If you come back later, the Plot Kill was a red shirt. Any info you gained is lost, and if shared no different then Meta Gaming on the discord. We need to trust players can play properly. If they can’t learn to not meta game, then they aren’t bringing good RP to begin with.

    
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