Conversation #5: Rules of Engagement

rayuu

3 years ago
updated 3 years ago

Definitely a lot of bullet points on this rule, and I know there has been a lot of conversation! So feel free to discuss with us what you think about this rule and anything that should be simplified or elaborated on. Please keep it civil!

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Rules of Engagement

Different types of situations allow for different types of RP. Does the situation your involved in carry high stakes that your character would realistically respond in a lethal way too?

Bank trucks for example carry high stakes and it would not be deemed improper escalation or failure to initiate to shoot to kill without warning, this is what we call Engagement Without Initiation situation.
You cannot ambush people to kill them on sight. You must engage verbally and ask them to leave or take them captive. Provide some sort of RP.
Gang Turf: Official gangs can engage with each other in gang areas in accordance with the rules of escalation or with prior verbal warnings. I.E. Rival gang continues to enter your gangs territory after being told not to, once they have been warned once that day you can openly engage on them even without a declaration of war
Crims engaging Police: It is only ok to openly engage police in a shootout when you have knowingly been stopped for a felony offense, have an active warrant, or if you have ran from the police, cornered, while already having a weapon out. Baiting them into a shootout just for a shootout will result in points against yourself.
Armored Trucks & Drug Supply Points *EXCEPT WEED FIELDS*.
You cannot be arguing or have a disagreement with someone then go straight to shooting, that would be improper escalation.
Be mindful of highly visible public locations, Food joints, public job locations, public buildings. Places what would have some sort of CCTV and pedestrian presence, have some imagination.
Traffic stops: It is NOT acceptable for your character to kill people over this. Let police have some roleplay.
Store robberies, you need verbal initiation.
Player robberies, you need verbal initiation.

Non gang members cannot be engaged without initiation on gang turf. (This includes police officers)

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Vlad Damian

3 years ago

Quote from Zopfco

Explain to me the difference between "shoot to kill without warning" and "ambush"? I would call that a semantic difference from the perspective of the ones being shot. One of those things is allowed & the other isn't. I maintain that they are essentially the same thing.

Ambushes require premeditation, it's something planned. The other rule is situational and has to be on the spot based on what's going on at that certain bank truck, if you want to take it for yourself or just deny an enemy of yours the claim, you can do so without giving them a warning beforehand as everyone that wants to get involved with it is already on high alert. The person planning the heist does so for the money, not to ambush other people (besides the truck itself which isn't player driven) the ones that come due to noticing it do so due to seeing it happen, they won't know about it to plan an ambush on other people that unknowingly walk into it. (Again, the original crew or individual that plans the heist is already aware that it's a hotspot and whoever sees it and wants to do an impromptu heist knows what they're potentially walking into too).

Hope I'm not the only one that sees the two rules as being separate, but at the same time it should be further explained that the only "shoot to kill" should be on people that are clearly getting involved in the situation, not a person minding his own business 2 streets down from the truck.

We're having this conversation but for now we don't even know if we'll be able to take someone else's truck without holding them up after they actually steal the money.

Edit : I think the latter rule is simply to avoid people doing dumb shit like camping in a bush or a rooftop to shoot someone with no warning or anything. Whilst I don't personally have a problem with that happening if it's for good reasons with prior RP, I can see why on an RP server you'd want to avoid that.

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Zopfco

Quote from Yung Sleezus

I don't think those contradict each other. A bank truck can happen anywhere, and would be very audible if not visible and would definitely have enough red flags in the area for people to avoid it, whereas a purposeful ambush by design leaves the victim with no option of self-preservation.

Yung Sleezus

I think the rule should stand as is. Especially bank trucks and drug drops. If you find yourself in the middle of one of these you were either looking for it or lacked the situational awareness to avoid the situation and survive. The people doing such a high-risk crime have no idea who you are when you approach or your intentions. Not allowing them to shoot on sight heavily disadvantages them as they immediately become susceptible to a lot of bs.

One would be trolls who know they can't get shot on sight so they just drive up and say some random nonsense and antagonize. Sure it can get reported but it still ruins the RP in the moment as you're supposed to be a badass on this high stakes job in the middle of a densely populated city but you have to take shit from Randy McRando in his bright pink R34.

The second issue would be giving a rival group or gang who may intend to intercept the truck would immediately have an upper hand as they have the grace period of "proper escalation" to set up some type of ambush or tactical formation and even be able to fire the first shots.

If we're going to allow kill-on-sight in these situations the attackers are likely to be helplessly gunned down in their cars as soon as they approach. When will that be acceptable? Drug drops, truck heists, armed robberies, any "shots fired" police call... In all of these scenarios the case could be made that the threat is evident & a violent confrontation has already been initiated.

This definitely could be clearer; the very first statement in this rule is contradicted by the second.

Bank trucks for example carry high stakes and it would not be deemed improper escalation or failure to initiate to shoot to kill without warning, this is what we call Engagement Without Initiation situation.
You cannot ambush people to kill them on sight.

Diezel

Quote from BIRLZeY

Yeah, what you think? Personally I'd like verbal initiation for everything initially.

I have to disagree. Too much focus on needing verbal initiation can ruin RP. Not having it amplifies it sometimes. While it is not needed in every situation, we are talking high stakes risk. If I’m going to be robbing a drop, currently I’m already shooting NPCs.If I need to take a moment to RP verbally here that would mess up the entire scene. If someone pulls up in the middle of something like that, they deserve to be blasted on immediately. Also the same in reverse. If I pull up to a drop and shits going down, the point of telling someone you want their shit while their guns are out would be not worth the time, considering they clearly don’t need to worry about their life at the moment, they are battling. Sure this could maybe cause issues during a bank truck if someone innocent gets shot. But that also could build RP. Rough situations give gritty role play. I personally feel the needs to be expanded on slightly.

DABDRAGON BOYS

Be mindful of highly visible public locations, Food joints, public job locations, public buildings. Places what would have some sort of CCTV and pedestrian presence, have some imagination. I feel this a little bit but as well their are mask in the game to hide your faces. Sometimes in IRL people still rob places in public sometimes in a populated area and people really do just mind their business and don't even say anything or call the cops sometimes they fear they mite get killed or hurt by them. As well we have some people that will call the cops. I think if any situation has proper initiation it should be okay no matter. I see cops open fire on peoples car to shoot their tires how are they not fearing for the public where their is a lot of people bullets fly and go through windows and walls. They are hear to protect and server we are criminals we should not really have to fear for the public life. but in a sense we should as well you do have IRL gangs and people that will ride with someone or do something to save their loved one or homie in a sense ride or die that's what it means to be in a gang live by the gun die by the gun. Gangs are a couple of people that never had anything like cars money and what not some do what ever it takes just to have it for a little while even if they end up in a box or jail its for life . Mobs and cartels its even more crazy on the stuff they do i just feel that somethings need to be looked and added too. Last is the thing as well its GTA LORE RP the amount of stuff that happened in gta is crazy from ufo to blowing up FIB buildings its kinda hard to say and thing of irl style when its a gta lore some people don't get it like you all say use imagination its a roleplay server you play the part of a character you made get inside it and play that person I am not saying just because your a criminal do crazy stuff or pull guns out first but in a sense rp some stuff out like walking by a block a couple times /me looks at males or induvial fist fight first then use melee weapons using a gun is always a last thing to do have you and some friends jump the person or take his shoes or chain people in IRL when they get their chain took its really disrespectful and they got to get it back just trying to say think outside the box on proper engagement you dont need a gun to rp some stuff out their is no need to run to a gun right away though

BIRLZeY

Quote from tunkwa

"Armored Trucks & Drug Supply Points *EXCEPT WEED FIELDS*."

Is this one that people can shoot on sight with no initiation on?

Excuse the multiple posts but for the sake of discussion this seemed better.

You cannot be arguing or have a disagreement with someone then go straight to shooting, that would be improper escalation.

This is vague. What are we supposed to do between having a disagreement and shooting?

1. I call you a greenhorn claimjumpin' shitheel son of a bitch

2. You call me a lyin' dog-faced pony soldier

3. ??

/me slaps you with a glove?

Are we to engage in melee only in these situations?

Gang Turf: Official gangs can engage with each other in gang areas in accordance with the rules of escalation or with prior verbal warnings

I think this is mentioned elsewhere but the attackers should be in recognizable gang colors so as not to have an unfair advantage.

Also, where is each gang's turf exactly? These areas need to be clearly defined if KoS is going to be allowed there.