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Being in an official gang and having a business

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choppa
  • updated
  • Under review

Context: You cannot be in an official gang and hold another whitelist job, which includes business ownership too, on the same character.

I honestly feel like this rule is meant to straight up make people that are in official gangs expose themselves as gang members. You basically can't be in an official gang and keep it lowkey. While I maybe understand not having a whitelist job, I don't understand why you can't own a business.

Businesses are great for gangs as they can be used for roleplay as fronts for "money laundering" , their legal front in general.

IRL gang members are not gang members as a full-time job. Most of them either own businesses, or work somewhere as their 9 to 5, based on the gang/mob that it is. 

https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-businesses-supposedly-controlled-by-the-mafia.htm

This is great for RP purposes and I really can't see why it is not allowed. People that currently own a business and are in an official gang will probably find a loophole of some kind and pass the ownership to one of their friends just to be on their name, then they will still act around as they are owners or co-owners in some way. But not only that;

From a money making point of view, being in an official gang right now grants you no gain other than maybe a gang house. You can't make any money through paychecks of any sort. Same with the businesses (other than strip clubs and dealerships). And I know this will change soon. But it feels way too early to apply this rule if right now none of them are happening. I'd postpone this rule until "official gangs with a whitelist job style system that includes pay and perks".

Maybe allow people that are in official gangs to own a business but without being able to clock in at that business and make money out of it through a paycheck system, leaving them only the official gang system that is supposed to come in the future? Just to have the MLO basically with no other benefits, if all this is about the monetary gain that they can have from both owning a business AND being in an official gang.

I honestly feel like all of this should happen in roleplay. You can own a business, you can do whatever you want, as long as you keep your record clean and stay out of trouble. You get caught by the cops doing something bad, the government steps in and revokes your licence. As easy as that. This just straight up limits the roleplay of the people as it is right now, and it makes people that are into crim RP / official gangs very limited, almost like punished.

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1
New Chance
  • Answer
  • Under review
I suggest letting a gang have 1 business that is made on their turf. For example, giving Taco Libre to Vagos and having similar businesses for the other hoods.

There's not businesses in every hood/official gang territory and we don't make our own mapping so its not something the we can make. Also, this would be something that they would complain about too because they'd be forced into owning whatever it is we gave them based on location.

I suggest reverting the white list pay

This isn't going to happen. The pay was reduced for a reason and we cannot just revert those changes. I stated in other posts already and I'll say it again. WHITELIST JOB PAY IS BEING BUMPED BACK UP TODAY. But not reverted. Also see Dan Baldy's comment about who makes the most money... its outdated since we lowed the whitelist job pay, but he was right if we're speaking of how the pay was previous. Whitelist jobs made the most... second only to the crims that worked drugs with a good system.

encouraging them to go in on a business as groups.

We do not discourage this and we never ask or look where the money comes from... Businesses can be funded however it happens but the owner cannot be in an official gang.

The criminals have a lot of restrictions already regarding "the public side". We can't rob people, we barely can take hostages and because of that we can't have bank robberies as well for example, and more.

Criminals can do all of these activities anytime they want to make money:
Stores

Houses

Chop

Cars

Drugs

Garbage

Taxi

Uber Eats

Taco Libre

Trucking

and if you read the announcement you'd have seen that they're also getting a new activity

Non-crims have:
The choice of 1 whitelist job or 1 business
Garbage,

Taxi,

Trucking,

Uber Eats,

Taco Libre


How did I make the money myself that was put in there? By selling drugs, ALONG with garbage job. Was it risky selling drugs? Yes. It's supposed to be risky and pay MORE than doing any legal job. I got caught and fined plenty of times which slowed my progress.


Risky? Slowed your progress? Here are the dates you got charges from cops through the entire time you've played here. 3 of them were just speeding tickets. Yet you've been a criminal all the while and even ran a gang. Have they taken your sports cars and million dollar mansion? Have you paid a ton of fines? No, you haven't paid much and still have two unpaid actually...

Dates of all charges, 3 of which are speeding tickets.


Outstanding fines not paid

What's so different between someone who makes money doing illegal stuff like selling drugs then wanting to buy a business VS a whitelist job that gets his money by being clocked in? If that's their preffered type of roleplay and would rather spend their time making money by selling drugs to NPC and risk getting jumped by other gang members or arrested by cops and have more RP and interactions that way VS drive a garbage truck around from checkpoint to checkpoint why punish them? And who's to say that a person that works at LSC for example doesn't also sell drugs in their free time and make money that way as well? The person selling drugs gets involved into doing something RISKY that can get him an arrest on his record, then he won't be able to buy that business anyway. I thought that business owners are supposed to be people that don't get charges and if they do they will lose their licence.

This is a big one so I'm going to try to just make some points from it.

1. People can make money for their business however they want. I don't care if its from crime or whitelist jobs or trash.

2. The restriction isn't "You can't buy a business with drug money", the ONLY restriction here is you can't be in an OFFICIAL GANG, and own a business. Why is everyone blowing this out of proportion?

3. RP will play out how it plays out and yes, business owners might lose their business or whitelist job employee might lose their jobs should they decided to do crime. But again... not talking about that, just saying can't be in an official gang and own a business or work a whitelist job.

4. Context: You cannot be in an official gang and hold another whitelist job, which includes business ownership too, on the same character.

As the post above said, a limitations of 1 MLO business per official gang in total would be perfectly fine for everyone.. let them have their choice of what business they want to have / keep / get rid of, who will have it out of their members, then plenty will be available for civilians too... solutions can be found and ways to make criminal RPers and civilians "live together". This way the civilians still have an advantage, as a group of civilian friends can own as many businesses as they want meanwhile a group of criminals (a "gang") can only have one.

Did I say that you can't work with someone outside of your official gang to run a front for you? I don't see that I said that anywhere. Did I say you can't fund a business? Nope. 
So again... Context: You cannot be in an official gang and hold another whitelist job, which includes business ownership too, on the same character.

If a WL job player can't own a company, and criminal players can't own a company, who is going to buy them? Someone making the intended $5k/hour at a public job (iow anything but Libre) isn't buying a million dollar business at auction.

I kinda covered this one already but since I'm just going from the top here I'll just say it again. People can make money for their business however they want. I don't care if its from crime or whitelist jobs or trash.

Another thing that people might not fully understand is that we do have plans in the future to release certain businesses that are MUCH LESS REGULATED than the one's we have now. But for now, the attention is on adding more options for non-crims because the server is currently 10 things for crims to make money on vs 6 for non-crims. Or if you wanna eliminate the public jobs that everyone can use from the counts... then its 5 things for crims to do to make money, vs 1 for non-crims.

Replies 14
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4
Dan Baldy

A very detailed explanation to how a lot of us feel at the moment. I personally feel as crims are being forced into a specific path and not being able to branch out and do their own things. Every gang has their own goals and accomplishments. It's good seeing diversity and some gangs focusing on their hard earned businessess whereas not allowing gangs to have the same equality as non crims will lead to every gang doing the same activities eg. Drug runs and weapon runs which will potentially lead to conflict and war between them. Our gang are choosing to stay as an un-whitelisted gang because having to choose to go down a specific whitelisted gang eg. Yakuza or Armenians does not suit our style, what we intend to do or our ethnicity in rp if people see it that way. We feel as a gang we are losing our freedom and our opportunities and do not want to continue down a non crim role as there is no enjoyment in that role for us.

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6
Him Who Robs

I honestly cant upvote this enough... the fact that crims qre getting fucked over more blows my mins. Its not like irl cartels / mobs / mafias run entire buissness to make them look legit at face value. More restrictions less rp.... love to see it.

Avatar
3
Him Who Robs

Another really shitty aspect is... okay you want / need to go whitelisted... well say good bye to mr banks cos you have to be (insert x lore gang here) and he simply doesnt fit into that gang... take armenia mob or the yakuza for example... so that avenue is now completely dead for alot of current characters 

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1
New Chance

The public side of this would beg to differ. Remember when we launched dealerships? How did you make your money to buy Sanders? How did Clay make his money to buy Mosley's? How did Swizzy make his money to buy PDM? Remember how ONLY CRIMINALS had enough money to buy a business? So you want a gang of 10 people to be able to be business owners? You know there are only so many businesses available in the city right? This is just crims taking away the opportunity for non-crims to have something they can enjoy because, even still after drugs were lowered, crims have the best money making access across the city.

Avatar
3
Moonchie

I suggest letting a gang have 1 business that is made on their turf. For example, giving Taco Libre to Vagos and having similar businesses for the other hoods. That way gang members have a business, and that business goes by the guide lines and counts for each person in the gang so no others can bid on another business from said gang. It will also bring presence to their hood which is a huge plus on the official gang aspect of things. And as far as the "crims have the best money making access across the city" statement. I suggest reverting the white list pay along with encouraging them to go in on a business as groups. Because the whole no businesses for gangs will just encourage people to not go official, and I feel that is super counter productive for the big picture. In addition, if you revert the pay, we will have more people doing said jobs which will fill the white list staffs and make the city run smoother, along people wanting the job more because it isn't as readily available due to full staff. And not to mention, the city is just that much better with active white list staffs.

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4
choppa
The public side of this would beg to differ.

The criminals have a lot of restrictions already regarding "the public side". We can't rob people, we barely can take hostages and because of that we can't have bank robberies as well for example, and more.

How did you make your money to buy Sanders?

How did I make my money to buy Sanders? By borrowing it. I borrowed money from multiple people and split the fee 70/30 with someone else to be able to afford it. Then I borrowed more money to be actually able to stock the floor. Then paid it all back after 3+ months when people actually started buying bikes from me.. The amount of cars dealerships combined sell in one day, I barely sell that in a week. How did I make the money myself that was put in there? By selling drugs, ALONG with garbage job. Was it risky selling drugs? Yes. It's supposed to be risky and pay MORE than doing any legal job. I got caught and fined plenty of times which slowed my progress. But again, it is not my fault that was the best way to make money back then. Why punish people one year later for how the economy was one year ago?

This is just crims taking away the opportunity for non-crims to have something they can enjoy

What's so different between someone who makes money doing illegal stuff like selling drugs then wanting to buy a business VS a whitelist job that gets his money by being clocked in? If that's their preffered type of roleplay and would rather spend their time making money by selling drugs to NPC and risk getting jumped by other gang members or arrested by cops and have more RP and interactions that way VS drive a garbage truck around from checkpoint to checkpoint why punish them? And who's to say that a person that works at LSC for example doesn't also sell drugs in their free time and make money that way as well? The person selling drugs gets involved into doing something RISKY that can get him an arrest on his record, then he won't be able to buy that business anyway. I thought that business owners are supposed to be people that don't get charges and if they do they will lose their licence.

So you want a gang of 10 people to be able to be business owners?

As the post above said, a limitations of 1 MLO business per official gang in total would be perfectly fine for everyone.. let them have their choice of what business they want to have / keep / get rid of, who will have it out of their members, then plenty will be available for civilians too... solutions can be found and ways to make criminal RPers and civilians "live together". This way the civilians still have an advantage, as a group of civilian friends can own as many businesses as they want meanwhile a group of criminals (a "gang") can only have one.

This is just my opinion as it feels like people that preffer crim RP are getting hit more and more with limitations in favor of.. anybody else basically. 

Avatar
1
Zopfco

If a WL job player can't own a company, and criminal players can't own a company, who is going to buy them? Someone making the intended $5k/hour at a public job (iow anything but Libre) isn't buying a million dollar business at auction.

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3
Dan Baldy
Quote from New Chance

The public side of this would beg to differ. Remember when we launched dealerships? How did you make your money to buy Sanders? How did Clay make his money to buy Mosley's? How did Swizzy make his money to buy PDM? Remember how ONLY CRIMINALS had enough money to buy a business? So you want a gang of 10 people to be able to be business owners? You know there are only so many businesses available in the city right? This is just crims taking away the opportunity for non-crims to have something they can enjoy because, even still after drugs were lowered, crims have the best money making access across the city.

I'd have to disagree with crims having the most money. I believe whitelist jobs give the most pay as evident by the houses and cars owned by these people including me. You said crims own most businesses? Well they seem to do a fine good job at running them that doesn't differ to a non crim. And for crims to have put all this time, money and effort into a business just to be forced to decide this late on into it is quite wrong in my opinion 

Avatar
2
Zopfco
Quote from Dan Baldy

I'd have to disagree with crims having the most money. I believe whitelist jobs give the most pay as evident by the houses and cars owned by these people including me. You said crims own most businesses? Well they seem to do a fine good job at running them that doesn't differ to a non crim. And for crims to have put all this time, money and effort into a business just to be forced to decide this late on into it is quite wrong in my opinion 

As someone else said, it encourages people to not be an official gang which is counterproductive.  The idea of paying them a salary for being in a gang seems weird to me; a gang should be doing crime for their paycheck - along with putting in a few hours on the sales floor at the gang's discount mattress outlet or packing frog powder into novelty lamps for export at the company warehouse, in between stints in jail and their community service hours.  #JustHoodThings

This sort of grey area is good RP imho. Pigeonholing people into either/or with whitelist gangs functioning like a straight job sounds a little too scripted to me.

Avatar
1
New Chance
  • Answer
  • Under review
I suggest letting a gang have 1 business that is made on their turf. For example, giving Taco Libre to Vagos and having similar businesses for the other hoods.

There's not businesses in every hood/official gang territory and we don't make our own mapping so its not something the we can make. Also, this would be something that they would complain about too because they'd be forced into owning whatever it is we gave them based on location.

I suggest reverting the white list pay

This isn't going to happen. The pay was reduced for a reason and we cannot just revert those changes. I stated in other posts already and I'll say it again. WHITELIST JOB PAY IS BEING BUMPED BACK UP TODAY. But not reverted. Also see Dan Baldy's comment about who makes the most money... its outdated since we lowed the whitelist job pay, but he was right if we're speaking of how the pay was previous. Whitelist jobs made the most... second only to the crims that worked drugs with a good system.

encouraging them to go in on a business as groups.

We do not discourage this and we never ask or look where the money comes from... Businesses can be funded however it happens but the owner cannot be in an official gang.

The criminals have a lot of restrictions already regarding "the public side". We can't rob people, we barely can take hostages and because of that we can't have bank robberies as well for example, and more.

Criminals can do all of these activities anytime they want to make money:
Stores

Houses

Chop

Cars

Drugs

Garbage

Taxi

Uber Eats

Taco Libre

Trucking

and if you read the announcement you'd have seen that they're also getting a new activity

Non-crims have:
The choice of 1 whitelist job or 1 business
Garbage,

Taxi,

Trucking,

Uber Eats,

Taco Libre


How did I make the money myself that was put in there? By selling drugs, ALONG with garbage job. Was it risky selling drugs? Yes. It's supposed to be risky and pay MORE than doing any legal job. I got caught and fined plenty of times which slowed my progress.


Risky? Slowed your progress? Here are the dates you got charges from cops through the entire time you've played here. 3 of them were just speeding tickets. Yet you've been a criminal all the while and even ran a gang. Have they taken your sports cars and million dollar mansion? Have you paid a ton of fines? No, you haven't paid much and still have two unpaid actually...

Dates of all charges, 3 of which are speeding tickets.


Outstanding fines not paid

What's so different between someone who makes money doing illegal stuff like selling drugs then wanting to buy a business VS a whitelist job that gets his money by being clocked in? If that's their preffered type of roleplay and would rather spend their time making money by selling drugs to NPC and risk getting jumped by other gang members or arrested by cops and have more RP and interactions that way VS drive a garbage truck around from checkpoint to checkpoint why punish them? And who's to say that a person that works at LSC for example doesn't also sell drugs in their free time and make money that way as well? The person selling drugs gets involved into doing something RISKY that can get him an arrest on his record, then he won't be able to buy that business anyway. I thought that business owners are supposed to be people that don't get charges and if they do they will lose their licence.

This is a big one so I'm going to try to just make some points from it.

1. People can make money for their business however they want. I don't care if its from crime or whitelist jobs or trash.

2. The restriction isn't "You can't buy a business with drug money", the ONLY restriction here is you can't be in an OFFICIAL GANG, and own a business. Why is everyone blowing this out of proportion?

3. RP will play out how it plays out and yes, business owners might lose their business or whitelist job employee might lose their jobs should they decided to do crime. But again... not talking about that, just saying can't be in an official gang and own a business or work a whitelist job.

4. Context: You cannot be in an official gang and hold another whitelist job, which includes business ownership too, on the same character.

As the post above said, a limitations of 1 MLO business per official gang in total would be perfectly fine for everyone.. let them have their choice of what business they want to have / keep / get rid of, who will have it out of their members, then plenty will be available for civilians too... solutions can be found and ways to make criminal RPers and civilians "live together". This way the civilians still have an advantage, as a group of civilian friends can own as many businesses as they want meanwhile a group of criminals (a "gang") can only have one.

Did I say that you can't work with someone outside of your official gang to run a front for you? I don't see that I said that anywhere. Did I say you can't fund a business? Nope. 
So again... Context: You cannot be in an official gang and hold another whitelist job, which includes business ownership too, on the same character.

If a WL job player can't own a company, and criminal players can't own a company, who is going to buy them? Someone making the intended $5k/hour at a public job (iow anything but Libre) isn't buying a million dollar business at auction.

I kinda covered this one already but since I'm just going from the top here I'll just say it again. People can make money for their business however they want. I don't care if its from crime or whitelist jobs or trash.

Another thing that people might not fully understand is that we do have plans in the future to release certain businesses that are MUCH LESS REGULATED than the one's we have now. But for now, the attention is on adding more options for non-crims because the server is currently 10 things for crims to make money on vs 6 for non-crims. Or if you wanna eliminate the public jobs that everyone can use from the counts... then its 5 things for crims to do to make money, vs 1 for non-crims.


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