Conversation #1: Robbing People & Hostage Taking

rayuu

3 years ago
updated 3 years ago

Read the Introductory Post before you start: https://feedback.newchance.network/en/communities/1/topics/422-operation-lets-have-a-convo

This is one of our more lengthier rules that we would love to get your feedback on! This is as it is on the website as of September 14th, 2021. Please let us know what you think and if you feel it should be changed. Any and all feedback is welcomed, but please keep it civil!
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Robbing people & Hostage taking

To keep things fair there needs to be some rules in place to stop things getting out of hand and below are listed for you in simple terms to follow:

You cannot rob or take a hostage from a clothing store, hair salon, or while they are refueling or repairing their vehicle. These places are unique and often people are stuck in a lengthy menu process or animation which makes it borderline powergaming to take them hostage.
You cannot take people hostage or hold them up for the purposes of exchanging them for people in jail or people in police custody.
You cannot chain rob someone (IE: Robbing them waiting 5-10 minutes for them to buy stuff and then robbing them again). This is FailRP and powergaming all at the same time.
You cannot force a player to go to a bank, or to an ATM, and withdraw money, this is too much of a risk as banks have lots of surveillance and employees that would most likely notice.
The Police naturally carry weapons, tasers, handcuffs etc. Cops are not loot boxes, the only times a criminal will rob a cop is if their OWN life depends on it. But cops should NOT be held up just to get their gear, criminals typically avoid cop attention so robbing them just for loot is not allowed.
You must not take a police vehicle, unless it is fight or flight and the only option for you to leave the scene.
If you take a gang member hostage, a reasonable amount of money or items, may be requested of the other gang, but, not to exceed a value of $25,000. This does not apply to police situations. You cannot demand money from police.

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Zopfco

3 years ago

You cannot rob or take a hostage from a clothing store, hair salon, or while they are refueling or repairing their vehicle. These places are unique and often people are stuck in a lengthy menu process or animation which makes it borderline powergaming to take them hostage

As it says, this is basically powergaming & could be listed there instead, maybe worded more generally so as to remove any potential loopholes:

Do not rob or take someone hostage while they are stuck in lengthy menus or animations that can't be easily canceled such as when repairing a car, in stores, etc.

cannot chain rob someone (IE: Robbing them waiting 5-10 minutes for them to buy stuff and then robbing them again). This is FailRP and powergaming all at the same time.

Maybe make this an extension of the anti-DM rule since there is a clear 60m cooldown stated there, or clarify once per day for robbing. Saying "5-10 minutes" implies 15-20 minutes is ok & I don't think that's the intent. This could also address some forms of harassment/targeting.

You cannot force a player to go to a bank, or to an ATM, and withdraw money

I would drop the explanation here and for most rules. Players can ask about "Why can't we __________" in #rules-questions if it's not obvious enough. It makes the rules document clearer and more concise.

The Police naturally carry weapons, tasers, handcuffs etc. Cops are not loot boxes, the only times a criminal will rob a cop is if their OWN life depends on it. But cops should NOT be held up just to get their gear, criminals typically avoid cop attention so robbing them just for loot is not allowed

You must not take a police vehicle, unless it is fight or flight and the only option for you to leave the scene.

Could be combined as something like

You may only rob police or steal police & emergency vehicles as a last resort & only option. You must have a valid RP reason to take such an extreme risk.

However I do think something like an officer abandoning a patrol car unlocked in the hood could reasonably be vandalized, robbed or stolen as valid RP. Rules should avoid protecting a player against their own carelessness or poor RP decisions. As I like to remind myself, bad decisions are good RP. XD

If you take a gang member hostage, a reasonable amount of money or items, may be requested of the other gang, but, not to exceed a value of $25,000. This does not apply to police situations. You cannot demand money from police.

I've heard a lot of confusion about this one. People assume $25k is the limit for any kind of criminal activity; scams, mugging, robbery - even though it only refers to gang situations.

If it's meant to apply to everyone it should be reworded, if not it should probably go in the gang specific section.

Hope some of this helps!

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New Chance

This is your chance to weight in on what you think of the rules. Will you take it, or just let it slip?

Moonchie

You cannot rob or take a hostage from a clothing store, hair salon, or while they are refueling or repairing their vehicle. These places are unique and often people are stuck in a lengthy menu process or animation which makes it borderline powergaming to take them hostage.

I personally think robbing should be away from those areas in general due to gangs stalking said areas waiting for the person to finish with pumping gas etc before jumping right on them seconds later before their character can react from animation. I even heard of instances where said person was done pumping gas but still finishing the animation, and within that time to get the total price of gas and stop pumping he was at gun point. People are working the grey area of this rule flawlessly, i'll give them that. But with that said, I suggest making said areas unofficial green zones of sorts to give said individual time to react (10-15secs) after animation and get out of the said store/station. I also heard of people getting robbed mid chop at chop shop, so maybe consider adding just the return spot of chop as a unofficial green zone for robbing since you're stuck in a 20-30 sec animation as well? I get its a criminal area and "anything goes" but if robbing is enabled there I can see it getting out of hand in the future considering the vantage point of the car garage next door and multiple rooftops.

I also feel like robbing people should have a maximum limit of drugs/cash similar to the hostage value of 25k. Because for example, if someone got robbed for all they have worked up for in 20 seconds due to not knowing their way around and having everything in their pockets. I doubt they would want to come back, and if they did, it wouldn't be for a good reason. And before the "But IRL if im robbing someone im taking their shoes, soul, girlfriend, and bubblegum". I get that. But that also isn't retaining anything positive for the ecosystem. All it will do is lean situations more into emotion based interactions than sportsmanship.

Chop return is one of the places where being able to fire weapons from a stationary vehicle would solve the problem.

As far as the gas station goes I would clip that and report them for powergaming. Said it in a different rules thread but players need to be made aware that intentionally violating the spirit of the rules is still a problem even if not spelled out specifically. If you're told not to play with matches you don't pick up a butane torch instead and then feign innocence. We're all adults here, trying to find loopholes in the rules is honestly worse than breaking them outright.

Agreed and noted brother! I just feel like the 10-15 second grace period after animation will at least deter a lot of store/station stalking still though. Which in return will stop a lot of ticket flow, especially if people start getting technical with the grey areas from both parties after said changes are implemented.